From: phil scott
Newsgroups: misc.taxes alt.politics.economics sci.econ uk.legal uk.finance
Subject: Re: Dollar crash: Calculated Chaos....Calculated Collapse
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:23:21 -0800 (PST)
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On Nov 15, 9:16 am, The Trucker wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:03:52 +0000, Graham Murray wrote:
> > The Trucker writes:
>
> >> Ask yourself what happens when the bank creates money for a lot of new
> >> homes and then the borrowers can't pay. Just like a car, the homes
> >> must be repossessed and sold to those who will pay.
>
> > So why have we been seeing reports of homes (sometimes almost whole
> > neighbourhoods) in the USA becoming either derelict or having to be
> > demolished following the lender repossessing them and then not being
> > able to find a buyer? Surely it would have been in everyone's interest
> > (both socially and financially) in such situations for the lender to
> > have not repossessed but continued to allow the borrower to pay the
> > 'pre-increase' monthly repayments (or whatever the borrower could
> > afford)? If they had done that then they would have had some (though not
> > as much as they planned for) return on the loan rather than in effect
> > writing it off, and the borrower would continued to have a roof over his
> > head.
>
> Neither I nor you should be concerned about the "return" to the lenders.
> That is the least of the problem. The only way that the demise of
> neighborhoods occurs is because of factors OUTSIDE the neighborhoods and
> OUTSIDE the control of the local buyers and local lenders. It happens
> because there are not sufficient opportunities for income in the area.
> And there is NOTHING that can be done at the level of the local
> home loan lenders to fix that problem. When there are no jobs then no one
> can live there. Such things do not happen because the people are
> deadbeats nor does it happen because of greedy bankers. The ONLY solution
> is for the people to relocate to some area where income can be found. That
> is called reality.
>
> --
> "I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
> of society but the people themselves; and
> if we think them not enlightened enough to
> exercise their control with a wholesome
> discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
> them, but to inform their discretion by
> education." - Thomas Jeffersonhttp://GreaterVoice.org/extend- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
relocating to 'where the jobs are'...involves moving to india in many
cases, then working for peanuts. the idea of moving to where the
jobs are works in a growing economy though...and so you are very very
right in making the statement under those conditions....however, the
economy in the USA is shrinking at warp speed, headed to the bottom
with no safety net in siight.
now of course i realize that govt says the oposite... thats spin and
disinformation from govt trying to prevent a panic. the hard
numbers involve huge profits by US corporations (please note Im not
denying that), and that is as real as it gets...however those profits
increasingly are generated off shore, with offshore talent, and
offshored infrastructure, and offshored investment....and this is
**despite some foreign investment in the US....
Most of that exchange is US jobs, industry, industrial infrastructure
etc going off shore..mostly to china.
...that is entirely fatal to the US economy and its people, regardless
that the international corporations do well in that case...primarily
by use of slave labor....that does not work in the US because of our
bloated govt and high costs of living that spin from that.
accordingly, any view that is missing a few of these aspects will be
skewed.. you will say then to someone in calif 'move to
arkansas'...or visa versa...then the fact is jobs that pay a middle
class wage are getting scarce at light speed. .. and this view
comes from ol philsie here... forced out of the engineering business
and into a wide range of freelance services, trades, and consulting
and I am doing reasonably well.
however i know what it took...and it took a lot, and it was nasty..and
I am way more than slightly talented, and without a family to
feed...so I made it to viable levels. Most are not in that
position.... these, the great american middle class, the core
productive capability of the nation. now about half decimated... that
takes down the entire country in the end.
thats not speculation....it is a cycle repeated in history, with
defined mile markers, sort of like being 22 miles outside of st
louis...the road sign doesnt change...and the indication is firm..one
is not guessing.
Now regarding 'cycles'...recession and depression cycles...not big
deal some think..and to an extent that is correct,... we recover, a
few go hungry for a few years then we recover. much of it in ones
own lifetime.
so we make our judgements on that short time frame cycle... a fatal
mistake when it comes to the longer cycles...here i am referring to
the 260 year life cycle of nations... it takes about 5 generations for
a nation to go from tough as nails to soft and corrupt and rotten...in
the final stage these elect or are dominated by people who destroy all
they touch.
one of a few dozen markers at the final stage. others are having to
import labor since the birth rate has gone south, hyper inflation,
total govt bloat, ruthless levels of taxation, wars to gain land or
assets of other nations...and perverse behaviors all around.
these are the historically well documented markers... then time frame
in this last stage is about 20 years... from the nations most obvious
peak of power and afluence, to its total collapse on those trend
lines, with those markers...
Such rot does not cure itself...mother nature does that in all life
forms by means of the birth, life, and death cycle..... not a
recession you see. .. we will not be seeing one of those either, we
are way past that now.
Phil Scott
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