From: Ronald Raygun 
Subject: Re: C&P at supermarkets
Newsgroups: uk.finance uk.legal
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:44:53 GMT

Tim wrote:

> [uk.legal added]
> 
>> >> "Tim" wrote:
>> >> > Eh?  You're saying you should have left
>> >> > with the goods, but without paying???
>> >>
>> > "Ronald Raygun" wrote
>> >> Why not?  He has bought them, after all.
>> >> This has created a debt which he has every intention
>> >> of settling in due course.  What's the problem?
>> >
>> "Tim" wrote:
>> > Practically, the security staff of the door?   ;-)
>>
> "Ronald Raygun" wrote
>> I'm sure they know that if they so much as touch you, they're dead.
>> In the sense that you can have them sent down for assault, etc.
> 
> So they won't stop shoplifters as long as they pass
> through the till before running off with the goods?

Something like that.  I think they have the power to "arrest"
(i.e. detain) you only if they have sufficient cause to believe
that an offence (i.e. theft) has been committed.  If you actually
buy the goods and announce your intention to pay later, it can
no longer be theft and becomes a civil matter.  :-)

>> "Tim" wrote:
>> > Technically, though - he has "offered to buy",
>> > but has the supermarket "accepted" the
>> > deal before payment has been made?   :-(
>>
> "Ronald Raygun" wrote
>> Absolutely.
>>
>> Step 1:  Shop advertises price.  Invitation to treat.
>> Step 2:  You present the goods.  "I offer to pay the invited price".
>> Step 3:  Item scanned.  "I confirm your offer to be satisfactory, i.e.
>>          I accept your offer to pay 19p for this can of chopped
>>          tomatoes".
>> Step 4:  "That'll be £45.60, Sir.  How would you like to pay?
>>           Cash, cheque, payment card, or account?"
>>
>> Clearly step 4 acknowledges that the debt has been
>> created and is presenting options for settling it.
> 
> Have you ever tried this?

Too shy.

> Isn't the "offer to buy", and thus the acceptance,
> conditional on the buyer paying before leaving the shop?

You can't be serious.  The offer certainly is not conditional,
though the shop may well like the acceptance to be.  But I
don't think it is.  It is fundamental to contract law that
there exists separation between its coming into being (through
offer and acceptance) and the things agreed therein actually being
carried out.

Technically the goods remain the property of the shop until paid
for, but that doesn't need to mean you can't take them away,
and indeed eat them.

> Otherwise you'd have everyone walkiing into Dixons, asking
> for a huge plasma telly, then at the checkout saying "thanks
> for the sale, but I'll pay you later" ... then walking off
> with the telly (on interest free credit until sometime later!).

I don't know about "interest free", but yes, there's nothing
wrong with that, and there would normally be reasonable time
limits within which payment would have to be made.  And of
course they need to be satisfied you're not pulling a fast one,
so suitable evidence of identity/address etc would need to be
given.  A loyalty card, perhaps?  Loyalty works both ways.  :-)