From: "Tim" 
Newsgroups: uk.finance uk.legal
Subject: Re: Credit Cards/Chip and Pin/ATM withdrawls
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:02:24 +0000 (UTC)

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" wrote
> Look lets stop arguing, we're all saying the same thing...

Oh yes?

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" wrote
> Chip + Sig - ...
> ... the customer's hand writing expert
> can prove it wasn't them using it.

Disagree.  Maybe so with a bad forger, but some forgers are better and might
fool the particular "expert" used that time.

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" wrote
> Loss to banks/retailers x .. loss to customer .. 0.

Maybe, maybe not - depending on circumstances.


"GSV Three Minds in a Can" wrote
> Chip + Pin -  ...
> Customer's chance of proving it wasn't them - close to zero.

Heartily disagree.  CCTV might show the fraudster.
Customer might be able to prove s/he was in a
much different location at the time of the transaction.

Anyway - and more to the point - the customer
doesn't need to prove it *wasn't* them.  But
the bank needs to prove it *was* them!

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" wrote
> Loss to bank/retailers 0. Loss to customers, x/10.

Maybe, maybe not - depending on circumstances.