From: "Tim" 
Newsgroups: uk.finance uk.legal
Subject: Re: Chip and pin fraud.
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:40:05 +0000 (UTC)

> >> Fergus O'Rourke wrote
> >> >I couldn't see the FOS taking that line seriously.
> >>
> >"john boyle" wrote
> >> It wouldnt get that far.
> >
> "Tim" wrote
> >Ermmm - isn't that up to the account holder?
>
"john boyle" wrote
> You are confusing two points.

No, not here - I was simply questioning your comment that the customer
couldn't go to FOS.

"john boyle" wrote
> In my responses throughout I am referring to the most
> common form of card misuse which is a stolen card
> and a revealed pin, or a cloned card with a revealed pin.

Ah, I've been talking about a made-up ("cloned") card with a shoulder-surfed
or guessed PIN.

If the PIN has been deliberately revealed by the account holder to the
thief, then I'd consider that as being involved with the theft.