From: "Tumbleweed" 
Newsgroups: uk.finance
Subject: Re: Chip and Pin - More secure for who?
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:48:01 +0100


"James"  wrote in message 
news:471fc78e.0410072331.25979b1d@posting.google.com...
> "Tumbleweed"  wrote in message 
> news:<2sl6usF1l76ufU1@uni-berlin.de>...
>> "Matti Lamprhey"  wrote in message
>> news:2sl5ppF1mo91aU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> >
>> > This (fake terminal intercepts keyed PIN, card then stolen) is also my
>> > big concern about chip & pin, because the onus will now be on the
>> > cardholder to explain how the PIN became known -- and how is he 
>> > expected
>> > to do so?
>> >
>> > I've e-mailed my card issuer about this and it will be interesting to
>> > see their response.
>> >
>> > It could have been avoided by the "enter digits 2, 5, 7 and 8 of your
>> > PIN" approach.  Is there anyone here who knows why they rejected that?
>> >
>> > Matti
>> >
>>
>>
>> Instead of worrying about ludicrously far-fetched hi-tech attempts to
>> intercept a PIN (just *where* is this fake terminal?
>
> Me thinks if you do a search in Google you will come up with lots of
> examples of different methods crooks are using to acquire PINs, PINs &
> Cards etc.

...none of which involve someone fitting an additional terminal to capture 
the PIN in anything other than an ATM, something that happens today without 
C&P cards. Never seen a report of a fake terminal in, say, a restaurant, 
have you? If the waiter is crooked he can today just take a copy out of your 
sight. And today the cards can be cloned so there is a point to doing it, 
but not with a C&P card which cant be cloned(yet?). With a C&P card, the 
waiter could either do what you suggest which is devise and build, or 
obtain, a high tech expensive bit of hardware which somehow connects onto 
the real terminal, or do what I suggest, which is look as you type the PIN 
in.

>
> If you don't believe the media on the high incidences of Cash Point
> Fraud then have a look at the official figures - a 34% rise in fraud
> at ATMs.

Nothing to do with the point under discussion,and not in dispute (thats the 
reason why they are introducing C&P!)
I just pointed out that your ludicrous high tech supposed method of 
capturing PINs has at least one other much simpler way of getting it, 
looking!

-- 
Tumbleweed

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