From: "Bill Bonde ( ``This is the Battle of Epping Forest '' )" 
Newsgroups: alt.energy.homepower misc.consumers.house misc.consumers.frugal-living
Subject: Re: Oil/Pellet Stoves?
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:58:09 -0800
 money. Paying people in health care is like paying them in corn. It's 
 stupid.



Rod Speed wrote:
> 
> Bill Bonde  wrote in message
> news:41854283.12F20DCC@backpacker.com...
> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> Bill Bonde  wrote
> >>> me@privacy.net wrote
> 
> >>>>> Planting, harvesting and transportation requires fuel but
> >>>>> it doesn't have to be fossil fuels. Most farm machinery
> >>>>> and trucks used for transport use diesel engines. Diesels
> >>>>> work fine on biodiesel or straight vegetable oil. These
> >>>>> fuels can be made from corn.
> 
> >>>> That would be the ultimate huh?
> 
> >>>> Use bio diesel to grow corn.
> 
> >>>> Still tho.... is there a net energy gain?
> 
> >>> If it is less than 1:1,
> 
> >> Corse it isnt.
> 
> > You can't prove that
> 
> Corse you can, its completely trivial to calculate whether
> there is a nett energy gain or not with the use of biodiesel
> or veg oils used to power the farm machinery.
> 
Yet you haven't done it.



> > since corn is subsidized heavily.
> 
> Completely irrelevant to that nett energy gain question.
> 
Of course it matters. If I give you 90% of the cost to make something,
you could sell it to someone else for 20% of the cost of production and
still make a profit. That would work even if the process was a net
energy loser.



> And you can show a nett energy gain with other non subsidised
> crops used to produce veg oils and biodiesel too.
> 
> > Of course I doubt you'll really see it as a net energy loss,
> 
> Corse you dont.
> 
> > but the fact that you don't even know what the ratio
> > is suggests that you don't have enough information to
> > make all these definitive comments you just love to make.
> 
> Complete pig ignorant bullshit. 
>
Projection again, git?


> The basics on fuel use
> for farm machinery used to grow crops like corn and
> other crops used for veg oil is completely trivial to get.
> So is the other data you need like crop yields.
> 
> Any Dept of Ag in any first world country has that basic budget
> info available, because its used to decide what to grow, stupid.
>
Obviously this is non trivial or you'd have provided it. Instead you
just assert things.



-- 
Here's another way of looking at it. Every single vote that is cast that
should not be allowed disenfranchises someone who legitimately could
vote and disagreed with the illegal voter. That makes keeping illegal
votes out just as important as making sure that legal ones are allowed.
Of course do we hear any of that from Democrats? They don't want
compulsory ID required to vote, they don't want to even exclude illegal
aliens or people who call themselves Mary Poppins. I'm supposed to take
these people, Democrats, as serious, well considered, politically
believable individuals?