From: "3D Peruna" 
Newsgroups: alt.architecture alt.home.repair misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Apples and Oranges: Architectural Fees?
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:23:53 -0500


"BRN"  wrote in message
news:cfibpu$c6v$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU...
> Hi all,
>
> We are currently looking for an architect to help us design an addition to
> our house.  We are interested in 2 firms.  Both are small, one is a purely
> architectural firm, the other a design/build firm.  The problem is that
> estimates for the fees to design the addition are VERY different.  I want
to
> know if I was missing something?
>
> The architectural firm's estimate is about $3000 for what they estimate is
> 66 hours of services to design a 3 story ~500sq' addition (which we are
> estimating will cost $80-100K to build).  The design/build firm is
charging
> 10% of construction costs for the design portion.  With an estimated
> $80,000-100,000 to build, their costs would be $8,000-$10,000.  Up to 3x
the
> architecture firm's price.  Of course we could be vastly overestimating
the
> cost of construction, so the cost of the design would be less.
> Unfortunately, my experience is that one rarely OVER estimates the cost of
> construction.
>
> Am I missing something here?  Is one vastly over or under charging? I
> suppose we could get a 3rd quote to "break the tie"
>
> We are in central Virginia.
>
> TIA
>
> Bart

First thing that comes to mind is that you may be confusing the D/B firm's
price.  When I worked for a D/B firm as a designer, we charged a fee that
included project management AND design.  If the client asked, we'd give them
a breakdown of what percent was for what.  Is their total fee 10% and that
included design?  Or is it 10% for design and another 10% for contruction?
If it's the flat 10%, then the design fees are 1)  Hidden in the
construction costs, or 2)  not nearly as high as you think they are (or
both).

As for the architecture firm's fee...they're giving you their services for
$45/hour.  There's no way I'd work that cheap.  But that's me.  Maybe they
need the work.  Maybe they're a young firm.  Maybe they think they can do it
30 hours, and have given themselves some slop.  I have a friend who works in
a major city who has to do work for half of what I'd charge because of the
competition.

Having been "in" D/B, I'm not a big fan.  I like the protection an
indpendent architect(/designer) offers, especially if the contract between
you and the builder is written correctly.  But yours is a smallish addition
(is that 500 sq. ft. / floor?  Or 500 sq. ft. total?   500 sq. ft. per floor
would put the costs at 3 times what you're estimating, YMMV).

Finally, if you're shopping fees...you're probably looking at it the wrong
way.  You should be shopping service.  Which firm is going to give you the
services you need.  Then look at the fees.  7-15% is a reasonable range for
architecture fees.  Some will work for less, other's more.  Size of the
project also makes a difference.  For me, a smaller project has a higher
percentage of fee because I still have a certain minumum of work to do
regardless of the size of the project.

HTH

P