Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Jim Banks Probate (long)
From: !smarternow@att.net
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:01:48 GMT

11/21/2003

Jim Banks Probate Business Workshop (long)

Before you read what I have to say about Jim Banks, please see this
other review.
If I would have seen this, I wouldn't have ever considered going to
his seminar.

John T. Reed’s views of various real-estate-investment gurus

http://www.johntreed.com/Reedgururating.html

I had responded to a mailed advertisement and sent off for his
self-promoting video tape. It seemed as though it had some promise but
I was put off by the $6,000 price tag.

I hadn't really heard anything about investing in probate properties.
I asked several realtors about dealing with probates and they didn't
know any more than I did. (I found out later that many realtors deal
with probate properties. It isn't mysterious or difficult. I even saw
some materials from one of the national franchises that described the
process in simple step-by-step terms.)

In his video tape and at the seminar, Jim says you can purchase
residential real estate at a 20-30% discount from retail prices in any
part of the country. He says his methods work in either a up or down
market.

I was skeptical of that but I thought if it really works it might be
worth it.

He also offered a guarantee: "If you participate in 3 probates (one
must be real estate) and you don't at least make the cost of the
seminar back, I'll refund your money."

I thought that sounded fair.

Off I went to the three day seminar.

The seminar I attended was taught by:

Jim Banks
Diane Hill
Ken Stimson

Things didn't exactly get off to an impressive start. Jim is one of
the worst speakers I've ever heard. He was hard to follow and
constantly talked in circles. I think he was just blurting out
whatever came into his head.

On the first day, I asked him, "Why would anyone sell to you? Why
don't they just list the home with a realtor? Why would someone give
up the exposure of the MLS?"

His answer: "Most will list with a realtor but there are enough
prospects that "want their free money faster" so there are plenty that
would be willing to sell to you."

My intention for this seminar modest. I was hoping to purchase, rehab
and sell 3-4 houses per year. I'd thought I would keep a few of the
nicer ones for long term rentals.

What do you get for $6,000?

Not much. Certainly not any nice seminar materials. Everything we
received would fit inside a small three ring binder. The materials
consisted of poorly made photocopies of newspaper articles and
courthouse documents. Any material he wrote was presented was in
outline form set in large type with big margins. I think he was
overjoyed to even fill up a small binder.

Do you think this put me off at the time? Nope. I remember talking
with another seminar attendee. We said "if this guy is such an awful
speaker and the materials are so crappy and he can charge $6,000.00 a
head for this stuff - this must be a gold mine!"

(Later I figured out who had the gold mine.)

I will not tell you his "secrets" because we all had to sign a form
that said we would disclose his methods. I can tell you that if you
follow the material listed in book below, you will get better
information at a savings of $5,700.00. (When compared to Jim's seminar
price.)

Gary DiGrazia' book
DIAMOND FARMING

http://www.probate-realestate.com/

After I took the seminar I was so busy with other projects that I took
me a while to before I could put his information to a "real world"
test.

Jim claims:

There is a big market for the service we provide. We are providing
needed liquidity for the heirs of the estate and helping to their
reduce legal costs.

(Jim said that most estates take 2.5 to 3.5 years to settle.)

I found this to be incorrect. Where I live, the majority of probates
are settled in 4-6 weeks. You can check the length of time in your
state by calling the county court house.

Of course, Jim isn't going to tell you that. He is going to focus on
the sensational cases like Marilyn Monroe, Elvis etc.

I spent several months following his instructions. I wasn't getting
anywhere.

Nada. Zip. Zilch

I contacted over 1,000 probates which included a piece of real
property. The demand for this service is non-existent. Out of those
probates,  I had a handful of lukewarm contacts but none ever got past
preliminary discussions. (All the houses subsequently sold at average
retail prices. How do I know? I tracked the sales of all properties in
the MLS.)

I was frustrated.

When I would call Jim's office,  Diane Hill would try and answer my
questions. When I would ask her questions regarding their recommended
procedures, I would always receive very short or "I don't know"
answers.

She couldn't answer any of my questions regarding the materials I had
found while reviewing probate files at the court house. (I began to
wonder, has she EVEN been to a courthouse to look at ANY files?) My
conversations with her certainly led me to believe that she has very
little experience in actually following the directions they sell to
students. (Please remember that she reportedly has 20 years of
experience in this business.)

I started to wonder if any of my classmates where having any better
success.

I had a list of them. I called the entire list. I couldn't find ANYONE
who had any success in following their system.

I asked Jim to send me a list of references of persons who had used
his system successfully. He refused to do this.

I said:" Do you mean to tell me that you have been selling this system
for 20 years and you don't have any customers that will vouch for your
system?"

"Uh, references? Sorry, we don't give that kind of information out."

At that moment, I knew that I had been had.

Yep, that's right. When pressed he couldn't back up his system!

You might ask - what about his "guarantee"?

Jim knows that he has written a guarantee that none will ever cash in.
Why?

Because he knows that you are very unlikely to ever find a probate
that is a bargain relative to the other houses listed in the MLS.

Jim has a very low opinion of the persons who evaluate the real estate
held by the probate. He specifically thinks they consistently
undervalue the real estate relative to the market.

I found they did a very creditable job. How do I know this? I
monitored the eventual selling price of every house using the same
comparables that a realtor would use.

I thought that I would try and recoup some of the seminar cost by
purchasing personal property at probates. (They spend time telling you
that you can make money doing this at the seminar.)

You will quickly find out that used furnishings sell for pennies on
the dollar. If you think you are going to buy something that might
make it on to Antiques Roadshow, think again.

If you are buying furniture, you will have storage issues. If you want
to talk with someone that sells/buys the personal property of probates
- just look in the yellow page index for probate services. They just
hold a few garage sales and whatever doesn't move just gets taken to
the dump. You deal with one person that will clear everything out of
the house. Very neat and simple.

I didn't find anyone who made a bargain purchase on probate real
estate. (OK, I found a few lawyers that who wrote themselves a
sweetheart deal at their client's expense.) How do I know this? I
looked at the price listed in their contract at the courthouse and
compared that with the sales price on the properties through MLS
(Multiple Listing Service.)

I also talked with Ken Stimsen. When I told him I was having problems
finding any properties that were bargains, he told me a story about
how "they said the prices of Los Angeles homes couldn't go any high
and look at them now".

I said that I could buy houses at current market prices and wait 10
years and say the same thing. I was told that I could purchase probate
properties at savings because the value of the information in Jim's
seminar.

Ken goes on to tell me that when he was buying properties 20 years
ago, he just went to open court and outbid anyone else that showed up.

That told me something very important. Neither he or Jim were using
the using the "techniques" they told the class participants would
work.)

I couldn't see myself endlessly going to the local courthouse to wait
in open court for a chance to bid on a property. For those of you that
haven't gone to a courthouse lately, you will find that any legal
process is a slow one and is frequently rescheduled at the last
minute.

In my estimation, Jim, Diane and Ken have been making a pile of money
for themselves for 20 years selling information that they know to be
worthless. They have been making so much money selling their "system"
that they haven't needed to buy any probate property for a long, long
time.

If you are thinking of investing in this seminar - Don't do it!

If you are still tempted to purchase his material - ask him for 25
references that can vouch for his material. He should have these.
Remember, he has been selling this stuff for 20 years!

I'll predict the future. If you ask for references - he will not
provide them.

You'll get some song and dance about his "guarantee" and he will tell
you that if you don't like what you hear the first day you can get
your money back then. (If you are thinking about leaving the first day
- he will say or do just about anything - except give you verifiable
references - to entice you to stay another day. In our class, one guy
did leave and I'm sure he got his money back. I only wish that guy was
me!)

I putting this information out there to hopefully protect someone else
from making the same mistake I did.

You might say: Why hasn't anyone else written in about their
experiences with Jim Banks?

I'd say most people are reluctant to admit they have spend their money
foolishly. I'm writing to see if I can help someone from purchasing an
worthless seminar.